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#1 2006-10-04 07:14:48

Outsider
Member
From: Winnipeg, MB
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 90

Brave and the Bold

In my continuing quest for all things Question, I picked up issues 5 and 6 of the Brave and the Bold miniseries, which as you all know featured Q? along with Green Arrow and The Butcher. I had purchased #1-4 several years ago and was so underwhelmed that I didn't bother to finish the series.

Having now finished the series, all I can say is that I was better off not knowing.

I'm a fan of Mike Grell. I don't mind Mike Baron or Shea Anton Pensa. The covers were excellent. And, being a Canadian who remembers the Oka crisis, the story concept was a solid, interesting one.

But the execution was simply bad.

Q?-wise, I liked the fact he didn't wear his face in #5 or 6 -- underscoring that he doesn't have a "secret identity" -- he is who he is regardless of the face he wears.

But when the hell did Vic start picking up guns -- large guns, rocket launchers, bazookas -- and blow people away? Are we supposed to believe this is the same guy who refused to kill Rev. Hatch?

I'm not one of those continuity wonks who freaks out because a small detail is forgotten or changed -- you want to Vic to have a long-standing crush on Lois Lane, fine -- but when something so fundamental to a character is ignored, it throws me right out of the story.

And then I complain about it on a messageboard. smile

Bottom line: for completists only. Don't go out of your way to get it.

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#2 2006-10-04 12:55:30

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
Website

Re: Brave and the Bold

You know, I was just thinking about trying to find some issues of this. I recently acquired a few of the Question Quarterlys and Annuals that have Green Arrow showing up, and I wanted to read about their future adventures. But it's no good, eh?

I don't know how I feel about The Question killing people.

spoilertastic!

He did it QUITE a bit in "Devil's In The Details", and Ditko's Question may or may not have killed a couple evildoers in his day, depending on how you look at it. Heck, he shot someone to death in the first Quarterly and wrestled with the desire to do so again through the rest of the series. I guess, depending on which incarnation of The Question it is, I don't have a problem with him taking lives, but I don't want him being a one-man army.

And the 'crush on Lois Lane' thing I'm a-okay with, but that's another post for another day.  wink

But, all in all, it's not that great, you say?


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#3 2006-10-04 23:15:58

Jazz Noir
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From: Cardiff, South Wales
Registered: 2006-08-30
Posts: 572
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Re: Brave and the Bold

I found it very odd that after becoming a master of Chi, he would then decide that killing every bad guy he faces would be the most suitable approach. But that really didn't bother me as much as the Lois Lane thing. I don't why though :?


'Judge a man not by his answers, but by his questions' - Voltaire.

'There is no growth without birth. Without a foothold in the past, we cannot walk towards the future.' - Vagrant Story.

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#4 2006-10-05 00:38:46

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
Website

Re: Brave and the Bold

I knew a lot of other people upset with it too. I think I only accepted it because it struck a very personal chord with me, and the Veitch/Edwards series was the first exposure to Q? I ever had. I figure if my first Question read was Ditko or O'Neil, I might not be as okay with it.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#5 2006-10-05 07:13:55

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: Brave and the Bold

I have similiar feelings to Flash, I think it's fine if the Question kills as many bad guys as he feels like provided he doesn't become the Punisher. Remember, in Devil's in the Details the people he takes on are running child pornography/prostitution rings, selling organs harvested from healthy people, armsdealing to terrorists and generally doing all sorts of other horrible things. They aren't the kind of people who deserve mercy, in my opinion allowing a man who pimps little girls to live is a very serious moral lapse. I'm not so crazy about Vic using guns. I can see him taking up arms when it's necessary, but I'm definetly against him carrying machine guns and rocket launchers into battle.


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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#6 2006-10-05 07:46:03

Outsider
Member
From: Winnipeg, MB
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 90

Re: Brave and the Bold

It's not the fact that he killed so much as the fact he killed easily and with no apparent guilt. It's not quite the same thing as refusing to help a bad guy who has fallen into the sewer (Ditko-era) -- he didn't cause that death, he simply refused to prevent it. Fine and in character, yet it still fit his character when he helped the hoodlum off of the ledge in #27 (or so) of the O'Neil series -- as Jazz Noir said, after he found Zen.

To be clear, I'm not saying Vic Shalt Not Kill. I'm saying his character was handled poorly in B&B, and the shootin' of the guns was a perfect example of this.

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#7 2006-10-05 15:47:35

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
Website

Re: Brave and the Bold

Yeah, seeing an armed Vic Sage is defienetly weird. Anybody remember his appearances in Dark Knight Strikes Again?


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#8 2006-10-05 23:59:40

NoFaceGuy
Member
Registered: 2006-09-20
Posts: 122

Re: Brave and the Bold

In the Veitch mini, I was definitely surprised by Vic's bodycount, but I can kinda accept it because there was a spiritual component to the story that seemed to elevate Vic's notion of life and death.  I can accept Vic using lethal force in self-defense or as a last resort and I can even accept him not feeling guilty about it (he has certainly accepted his part in having to stop the young suicide bomber in "52").  As long as he doesn't become vengeful or bloodthirsty, I'm ok with it. (although it places his morality a little closer to Shiva's doesn't it?)

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#9 2006-11-24 11:09:42

the1captain
Member
Registered: 2006-11-19
Posts: 21

Re: Brave and the Bold

Yeah, I remember this mini series.  At the time I was so looking forward to it.  It had Q?, Green Arrow, and The Butcher(A character who's own mini-series I still like to this day).  It also featured art by the same guy who did The Butcher's series.  I couldn't believe how bad it was.  Everything already said about Vic's characterization is true.  Very poor editing.  They had Vic working as a reporter when in his own book at the time he stopped working and (more or less) became Q? full time.

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#10 2006-11-26 09:00:30

Gabo
Little Eno
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2006-07-10
Posts: 442
Website

Re: Brave and the Bold

I found Showcase'95 #3 yesterday--- really liked the short Q? story. I assume it takes place before the first issue of the O'Neil series, am I right?

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#11 2006-11-26 19:15:24

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
Website

Re: Brave and the Bold

I have that one too, the continuity is pretty nebulous. When Vic returns to Hub City at the beginning of O'Neil's version it's not nearly as bad as it is when he leaves at the end, and that seems to be where the Showcase issue is placed. However, it also directly contradicts O'Neil's own series and The Question Returns, since the later Question Annuals have Vic returning from Brazil temporarily, and them presumably leaving again. It's really kind of up to the reader to decide what happens when.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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