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#1 2009-08-26 13:04:15

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Rucka's Detective

Now that there have been a couple of issues (well for me at any rate the rest of you are probably reading the 3rd issue by now), what's the verdict?

Personally, I'm lovin' in.  Both Batwoman and The Question.  If anything my only complaint is that The Question "Second Feature" is so short &/or I'd almost like to see Rucka & Hamner try a few "done in one" stories ala the original Question shorts.

Also I cannot praise the work of Williams and Hamner enough.

Next!

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#2 2009-08-26 22:14:35

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: Rucka's Detective

Those covers look so tempting...I know, in the long run, I'm just hurting my favorite character by not buying it and expressing interest in the Q? man, but I just can't bring myself to admit she's the Q? now.


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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#3 2009-08-28 09:33:22

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Rucka's Detective

But you could buy Detective to check out Batwoman, or the art of J.H.Williams III.  That you happen to read "the second feature" (really! I'm having a hard time with that... you'd think the folks at DC are old enough to actually remember what a double feature was) doesn't mean you've given in to the "Man".

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#4 2009-08-28 12:59:24

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: Rucka's Detective

But see, I'm still stuck on the whole "Batwoman was a terrible idea" frame of mind right now, too. Her first appearances basically ruined any chance of me taking her seriously as a character for a while.


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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#5 2009-08-28 14:48:31

Squashy Josh
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From: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-07-27
Posts: 181
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Re: Rucka's Detective

Mr.A wrote:

But see, I'm still stuck on the whole "Batwoman was a terrible idea" frame of mind right now, too. Her first appearances basically ruined any chance of me taking her seriously as a character for a while.

It has been a while.

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#6 2009-08-28 14:51:04

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Rucka's Detective

That's tellin' him Josh.

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#7 2009-08-28 18:17:41

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: Rucka's Detective

True, it has. And yet, I do worry that I may be buying Hot Lesbian Detectives Monthly! Convince me that I'm wrong?


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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#8 2009-08-29 15:59:43

Squashy Josh
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From: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-07-27
Posts: 181
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Re: Rucka's Detective

Mr.A wrote:

True, it has. And yet, I do worry that I may be buying Hot Lesbian Detectives Monthly! Convince me that I'm wrong?

It is what it is. There are indeed hot lesbian detectives within the book, and if that is all you want to draw from reading it, I imagine that is all you will get. That said, apart from one page in 855, there has been no mention of either character's sexuality. The old saying has never been more appropriate: never judge a book by it's cover. Comic book characters lend themselves well to frequent reimaginings, since the artists who shape them and the world which they draw upon are rarely static enough to offer the chance at a solid, irrefutible continuity of character. Not that they should be.

Approach the book with an open mind, and I think you'll be rewarded for doing so. It is my opinion that 'Detective Comics' is the best series currently on sale. It is visually beautiful with compelling narratives that pull no punches. It also manages to provide honest and, so far, realistic representations for a woefully under-represented group of people. The choice to have two lesbian protagonists should be celebrated, since it has evoked heated discussion and has the potential to provide an original and refreshing take on a dynamic that has, in the comic book medium, become a little stale. To condemn it without inspection is to ally yourself with those who would condemn change altogether. I'm not saying that you put your faith in me, or the book without buying it. All I ask is you use your mind to make your own decision after seeing the evidence.

As I am typing this, a very appropriate quote, to both poster and topic sprang to mind:

'We do not tell - we show. We do not claim - we prove. It is not your obedience that we seek to win, but your rational conviction. You have seen the elements of our secret. The conclusion is now yours to draw - we can help you to name it, but not to accept it - the sight, the knowledge and the acceptance must be yours'

wink

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#9 2009-08-30 04:34:28

?
Conspiracy Theorist
From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
Website

Re: Rucka's Detective

It's worth buying it for the J.H. Williams III (who's name I am constantly reading as "j3h" for some reason....) art alone.

And if you don't like art, it's worth buying for the Greg Rucka writing alone.


Incidentally, I'm enjoying the Batwoman segments far more than the Question ones.... but we'll see.


Who are you?

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#10 2009-08-31 10:48:45

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Rucka's Detective

Squashy Josh wrote:

The old saying has never been more appropriate: never judge a book by it's cover.

Though... if you were to judge Detective by it's covers you wouldn't be disappointed.

I'm just saying.

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#11 2009-08-31 15:25:50

Squashy Josh
Moderator
From: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-07-27
Posts: 181
Website

Re: Rucka's Detective

Byrd68 wrote:

Squashy Josh wrote:

The old saying has never been more appropriate: never judge a book by it's cover.

Though... if you were to judge Detective by it's covers you wouldn't be disappointed.

I'm just saying.

Ha. Not entirely untrue.

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#12 2009-09-01 11:25:09

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Rucka's Detective

Speaking of which... over at CBR Tim Callahan posts his top 10 series in his When World Collide and Number 3 is Detective.  Here's what he has to say (is he wrong about the Question?  I think so... but then again...)

This is another kind of trashy fun, with a pulp-driven story by Greg Rucka and forward-looking visuals from J. H. Williams III. Ignore the Question back-up -- those pages are little more than filler -- but pay attention to the lead Batwoman story. As if you could somehow ignore the amazing Williams III artwork. As if it's even possible to flip through this series in the shop and put it back on the rack. If you can do that, you either have terrible taste in comic book art or you can't scrape together the $3.99 it takes to buy this book. If that's the case, you should probably get to work, because you'll need to get "Detective Comics" so you can tell your grandkids you were here when it happened.

Maybe the story isn't so great -- it's hard to tell with the dazzling Williams III art blinding us -- but even when Williams III steps aside for a month or three to let someone else tell the story of Kate Kane, well, this series might still be worth a read.

Ah, who am I kidding? It's Williams III that matters here, but he matters a lot.

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#13 2009-09-07 23:21:34

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: Rucka's Detective

Squashy Josh wrote:

As I am typing this, a very appropriate quote, to both poster and topic sprang to mind:

'We do not tell - we show. We do not claim - we prove. It is not your obedience that we seek to win, but your rational conviction. You have seen the elements of our secret. The conclusion is now yours to draw - we can help you to name it, but not to accept it - the sight, the knowledge and the acceptance must be yours'

wink

Ah, you got me. You knew I couldn't resist, didn't you?
So, I gave the first issue a shot, and, to my surprise and delight, I found it quite decent. While it suffers, as all first issues do, from having to make a first impression, I cannot deny that the art in both features is frankly fantastic.

Batwoman seems very flat to me, she really didn't grab my attention at all. The reveal that her cowl includes a wig was amusing, but frankly I don't see the point. Kate's hair is the exact same shade, so it's hardly adding to her disguise, and it seems that in battle an enemy could still easily grab the wig and yank her mask off. I was very bored by the angle with her love life being affected by her hero-ing (seen this in Spider-man far, far too many times for it to have impact anymore, unless  I already love the character). She should really just get a girlfriend who's also a vigilante, they could bond while beating bad guys to a pulp.

Love, love, love the art though, I just wish it was being used on a different character. Question/Question would be my dream, really, with the artist for these stories on Vic, and the fellow doing Montoya right now keeping at the backup feature.

The Montoya story I found to be surprisingly enjoyable. The character's look is just fantastic (I was digging that she changes  her black hair blond, in an homage to Vic's reversal), and I like that she's just letting missions fall into her lap using an e-mail address. I'm not digging that both Batwoman and Montoya seem to have an aged, accepting heterosexual(?) father figure though, it just struck an odd note with me that they would both have their lives structured so similarly. While Tot gives Montoya a nice sense of continuity, I don't remember the Colonel showing up in 52 at all. Not everyone needs an Alfred, I think the story of Batwoman acquiring a confidante would have been more interesting than starting her with one.

At the last, I feel I have to mention my amusement at the character design of "Alice". I knew girls in High School who dressed like her, I couldn't help giggling when she showed up.


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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