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#1 2008-08-25 11:15:03

?
Conspiracy Theorist
From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

So, I finally was able to get my hands on and read issue 17 of the O'Neil/Cowan series (which for those of you, who have not been obsessively searching for it, is the story entitled "A Dream of Rorschach" in which Charlie reads Watchmen).  I found myself quite pleased and surprised, to find that it was much more than a story that briefly mentions Watchmen. Rather it is a story that examines who Rorschach is in relation to Charlie, and who they both are in relation to Vic.


What I was wondering, was, what did all of you, think of the story and the meta-issue/commentary presented in it?


To me it actually seems like, the definitive (much more than the first issue) Charlie Szasz-Question story. It shows us where his limits are, what his moral beliefs are, how he views Vic Sage and Rorschach, his motivation.... in short, who he is.


[PS. I have no idea what the thread title has to do with the topic, but I liked the sound of it...]


Who are you?

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#2 2008-08-25 11:26:41

Squashy Josh
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From: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-07-27
Posts: 181
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Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

'Rorschach sucks' wink

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#3 2008-08-25 15:49:06

ryumega
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-05-06
Posts: 58

Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

Note: Im a bigger fan of Watchmen then the O'Neil run.

Rorschach is insane. But clever. O'Neil clearly didnt like that type of character which is why in the first comic he kills Vic. The whole "Rorschach sucks" is kind of insulting to the character. First Charlie's approach of bursting through the window. Dumb, I rolled my eyes at this. I remember Rorschach bursting from a fridge. Way different. Clever. Not dumb. The morals Im not touching, but just throwing my hat on what I think O'Neil felt about the real character of the Question. Essencially he wanted Q dead and to be replaced with Charlie Szasz (two questions that bother me; one how do you say it and what kind of name is that? I thought it looked Scandinavian).


"Professional liar and avid miss-speller"

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#4 2008-08-25 17:17:47

Squashy Josh
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From: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-07-27
Posts: 181
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Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

ryumega wrote:

Note: Im a bigger fan of Watchmen then the O'Neil run.

Rorschach is insane. But clever. O'Neil clearly didnt like that type of character which is why in the first comic he kills Vic. The whole "Rorschach sucks" is kind of insulting to the character. First Charlie's approach of bursting through the window. Dumb, I rolled my eyes at this. I remember Rorschach bursting from a fridge. Way different. Clever. Not dumb. The morals Im not touching, but just throwing my hat on what I think O'Neil felt about the real character of the Question. Essencially he wanted Q dead and to be replaced with Charlie Szasz (two questions that bother me; one how do you say it and what kind of name is that? I thought it looked Scandinavian).

Interesting observation. The 'Rorschach sucks' comment, as far as I am concerned, was meant to be insulting (and to a degree satirical) to the character from both a diegetic and non-diegetic point of view. As for the name: I am under the impression it is pronounced "sas" or "zaz" (though I could be completely wrong) and as for what kind of name it is... I managed to pull up two other people who share it.

Thomas Szasz (a famous Psychiatrist, among other things) also holds that surname.

Robert Szasz (a famous real estate developer and Baseball fan/heckler).

Last edited by Squashy Josh (2008-08-25 17:18:08)

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#5 2008-08-25 23:31:11

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

ryumega wrote:

(two questions that bother me; one how do you say it and what kind of name is that? I thought it looked Scandinavian).

For the record, O'Neil once stated it's origins as Hungarian (much like yours truly). I believe it was mentioned in Helltown that the nuns at his orphanage gave him that last name after a Hungarian immigrant priest who worked there as well.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#6 2008-08-25 23:50:40

ryumega
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-05-06
Posts: 58

Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

Thanks for the info, I'm working on how to say it now. Read a bit about the Psychiatrist. He had some interesting views.


"Professional liar and avid miss-speller"

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#7 2008-08-26 14:50:23

nobody
Member
From: Cincinnati
Registered: 2007-07-20
Posts: 81

Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

In Batman Begins they pronounced Mr. Zsasz's name ZAZ. I would imagine that it would be similar.

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#8 2008-08-27 18:48:33

Jayedynn
Member
Registered: 2007-07-31
Posts: 23

Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

Sz is pronounced as 's' apparently.  This website shows how the Magyar (Hungarian) alphabet is pronounced. The question is (no pun intended), is the 'a' pronounced 'ah' or 'oh', as that's what the two different A's in the alphabet sound like.  Szasz could be 'sahs' or sohs' with the correct Hungarian pronunciation. 

However, it may have an Americanized pronunciation.  I have a Polish surname, but our family goes by the Americanized pronunciation which is very different from the correct Polish one.  That may be why he uses Sage, as perhaps the Americanized pronunciation of Szasz sounds like Sage, so he just changed the spelling to make it easier on people.  At least, that's my perspective based on having a last name that people usually can't spell or pronounce. Some people in my family occasionally just give the phonetic spelling of our name instead of the correct one. smile

http://www.single-serving.com/Hungarian/GP/alphabet.php

Since O'Neil said he's named after a Hungarian priest, then it's a Hungarian name.  However, there are also Polish people with that surname.  Since Hungary and Poland have a centuries long history of cultural transfusion and changing borders, it shouldn't be a surprise.

Last edited by Jayedynn (2008-08-27 18:56:50)

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#9 2008-08-28 23:34:18

NoFaceGuy
Member
Registered: 2006-09-20
Posts: 122

Re: Charlie Szasz vs. The People....

I thought the "Rorshach sucks" comment was just funny.  Rather than simply say O'Neil "didn't like" the character, I think maybe he saw that kind of mindset as unenlightened (Rorshach was crazy after all) and that for Vic, it was more rooted in his penchant for violence more than his morality. (I'm sure Ditko would disagree) I didn't feel that he was commenting on the quality of Moore's work, but commenting more on the fact that Vic had lost his way in reverting to a less conflicted, though less enlightened, method of thinking.

Last edited by NoFaceGuy (2008-08-28 23:42:06)

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