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#1 2006-12-16 11:41:16

?
Conspiracy Theorist
From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Will He? Won't He?

It's time! Throw aside what you want and think about everything we know.

Then decide....

Will He or Won't He?


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#2 2006-12-16 11:48:27

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

In the words of Ween..."I understand it...but I don't want it."

He's done for. Pray and hope as we all might, Vic's gone.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#3 2006-12-16 12:04:47

?
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From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

I agree....oh crap....I just voted for no. Curse you poll machine! (and so begins the 2000 elections...ooo did I just get political?)


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#4 2006-12-17 02:12:00

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Will He? Won't He?

I haven't read enough to place my vote (my DCBS order has sitting in Federal Way since the 8th) and even when my 52's get here they'll only be thru week 30.  This is especially true when there's the mention of some guy who can cure cancer with a click of his tounge.(sp?)

That being said...from what everyone (who is better informed than I) have to say on the matter suggests it's a done deal.  I think the real question is if Vic will stay dead...or (and I know you all hate it when I mention it) if The Question will die when Vic does.

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#5 2006-12-17 21:02:52

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

The idea of The Question as Steve Ditko (and, to get meta about it, Vic Sage) created it will die with Vic.

The Question isn't a persona to pass along. The Question isn't something you can adopt to yourself. The Question is Vic Sage and Vic Sage is The Question. Vic Sage does the same things and acts the same way as The Question as he does when he's just being Vic. The only difference is that sometimes he doesn't have a face.

Passing the mantle of 'The Question' along flies in the face of that.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#6 2006-12-17 21:49:32

Byrd68
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From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Will He? Won't He?

The idea of The Question as Steve Ditko (and, to get meta about it, Vic Sage) created it will die with Vic.

The Question isn't a persona to pass along. The Question isn't something you can adopt to yourself. The Question is Vic Sage and Vic Sage is The Question. Vic Sage does the same things and acts the same way as The Question as he does when he's just being Vic. The only difference is that sometimes he doesn't have a face.

Passing the mantle of 'The Question' along flies in the face of that.

But someone...hey don't make that face...let me finish...ok...someone, who is also.... roll ... are you done...who is also the same person whether they are wearing the mask or not...yes, someone like Montoya.

I don't think the "mantle" will be passed on.  I don't think that it should be.  I think that the "mantle" will be picked up, assumed.  However...this is the DCU.  Superman...Captain Atom...(but he's dead again)...Jason Todd...Ras Al Ghul...the list is longer than that.

And in closing...let's face it the idea of Vic/Question as Ditko created him died...no was killed by O'Neil....ok I'm done.  I'm listening.

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#7 2006-12-18 00:09:46

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

Which is certainly a valid point. If Montoya is always Montoya even if she's The Question, then that continues onward in the spirit of the character. But, to me, it's wrong that the idea of being The Question can be passed on at all. Heck, according to some of the O'Neil issues, Vic didn't even LIKE the name 'The Question', he just needed a fancy nickname for his vigilantism. I'm sure he was totally comfortable being just called No-Face, or Vic if they knew who he was under the mask. He wasn't out to make a public persona for himself like Batman is, he just needed the mask to make sure people didn't know he was 'the guy offa the TV'. Again, going back to Batman, when Azrael took over for Bruce Wayne it worked because criminals knew of and expected a certain kind of behavior from Batman. Most criminals wouldn't recognize the name of The Question if you told them about him. If Vic's grooming Montoya not to be a successor to The Question, but because he felt she'd be the best person to implant his training and, to a degree, his ideals in, that's fine. But to hand her a mask and a trenchcoat and tell her to go around calling herself The Question in his place seems incorrect to me. There isn't really a Question, there is only Vic Sage.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start an argument, and I can see your side of the issue very well. I just feel that part of DC's agenda for killing Vic is to make a new Question in the DCU at large, and that goes against the character's spirit and reason for going incognito.

...cripes, did anyone READ all that?  lol


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#8 2006-12-18 05:10:27

Gabo
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From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2006-07-10
Posts: 442
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Re: Will He? Won't He?



Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start an argument, and I can see your side of the issue very well. I just feel that part of DC's agenda for killing Vic is to make a new Question in the DCU at large, and that goes against the character's spirit and reason for going incognito.

...cripes, did anyone READ all that?  lol

Yes, it's what I have been saying all along!  lol

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#9 2006-12-18 10:58:05

Byrd68
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From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Will He? Won't He?

1)If Montoya is always Montoya even if she's The Question, then that continues onward in the spirit of the character.
2)...it's wrong that the idea of being The Question can be passed on at all...Vic didn't even LIKE the name 'The Question', he just needed a fancy nickname for his vigilantism.
3)...If Vic's grooming Montoya not to be a successor to The Question...
4) But to hand her a mask and a trenchcoat and tell her to go around calling herself The Question in his place seems incorrect to me.
5) There isn't really a Question, there is only Vic Sage.

6) Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start an argument, and I can see your side of the issue very well. I just feel that part of DC's agenda for killing Vic is to make a new Question in the DCU at large, and that goes against the character's spirit and reason for going incognito.

7)...cripes, did anyone READ all that?  lol

List and Numbering mine

1) My point all along
2) But that's the point. Like your follow up about most criminal don't even know who the Question is...well and Vic didn't either for a long time.
3) Which I don't think he is. If he is I could have a problem with that, even if it's handled well.
4) I agree with you, which is why I don't think it would go down that way.  Maybe I'm wrong (and I probably am) but I always thought is more like "who was that guy with no-face", and the calling card made that point.  "Look here's that child-killer, all tied up...what's this...a calling card with a question mark...What the fuck does that mean?" etc. etc.  And the name of the Question came out of that...like Lois Lane..."What that guy in the capes name?...I'll just make a reference to Neitze and call him Superman"
5) Again...It's just the mask..."who is that masked man"..."Well Bob, that's a good Question...Hey!...We'll call him the Question"..."Frank that's a stupid name."..."Well if he doesn't like it he can stop using cute enigmatic and frankly quite juvinile calling cards around".
6) Well...I am... :twisted:... lol ...not really I just enjoy the intelectual exercize.
7) Well....Duh roll

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#10 2006-12-18 11:45:21

Outsider
Member
From: Winnipeg, MB
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 90

Re: Will He? Won't He?

Can I vote for "Maybe" or "Sorta"? smile

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#11 2006-12-18 13:38:17

?
Conspiracy Theorist
From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

Can I vote for "Maybe" or "Sorta"? smile

NO! NEVER! BLARGH! *end of power trip*

Which is certainly a valid point. If Montoya is always Montoya even if she's The Question, then that continues onward in the spirit of the character. But, to me, it's wrong that the idea of being The Question can be passed on at all. Heck, according to some of the O'Neil issues, Vic didn't even LIKE the name 'The Question', he just needed a fancy nickname for his vigilantism. I'm sure he was totally comfortable being just called No-Face, or Vic if they knew who he was under the mask. He wasn't out to make a public persona for himself like Batman is, he just needed the mask to make sure people didn't know he was 'the guy offa the TV'. Again, going back to Batman, when Azrael took over for Bruce Wayne it worked because criminals knew of and expected a certain kind of behavior from Batman. Most criminals wouldn't recognize the name of The Question if you told them about him. If Vic's grooming Montoya not to be a successor to The Question, but because he felt she'd be the best person to implant his training and, to a degree, his ideals in, that's fine. But to hand her a mask and a trenchcoat and tell her to go around calling herself The Question in his place seems incorrect to me. There isn't really a Question, there is only Vic Sage.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start an argument, and I can see your side of the issue very well. I just feel that part of DC's agenda for killing Vic is to make a new Question in the DCU at large, and that goes against the character's spirit and reason for going incognito.

...cripes, did anyone READ all that?

Agreed.


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#12 2006-12-18 20:08:19

Sai
Member
Registered: 2006-10-01
Posts: 20

Re: Will He? Won't He?

Leaving the whole Montoya question aside (or is she 'The Answer? Argh! No, I said I'd leave it alone!), I'm pretty sure Vic will die. Or at least, that's what I tell myself so that when he does die, it won't be such a blow (it's been a odd past few months, explaining to family and friends that I'm worrying over a fictional character). On the other hand, if somehow Vic doesn't die, it will be a pleasent suprise rather than merely an expectation.

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#13 2006-12-18 20:59:12

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

Oh, it's been hard for me to explain, too. I worry about how much of a wreck I'll be if someone I actually know in real life gets cancer.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#14 2006-12-18 23:29:07

Walter_Kovacs
Member
Registered: 2006-12-18
Posts: 4

Re: Will He? Won't He?

I have faith in the writers of 52. They're not that predictable. I have faith even more so now that Ralph has met the Acomplished Perfect Physician of the Great Ten in issue 32, who said "I can kill cancers with a click of my tongue." AND where is he hanging out right now? Nanda Parbat. Wait a minute, isn't that were Dragon lives and good ol' Professor Rodor was staying (temporarily)? OH YEAH! it was. I guess i'm counting on the basic rule of writing: you only introduce a character if they serve the plot. Now, ANY character could have been there to meet Ralph. Why a physician? And why one that specifically says he can cure cancer? I could be wrong, but i think Vic will live.

In any event, i don't think he was training her to be the next Question, just a successor. Also, the "end of a life" that's coming is Ralph Dibny, i think...He sounded very suicidal at the end of issue 32. And honestly...if you were Ralph Dibny, wouldn't you?

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#15 2006-12-19 00:21:53

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

Ah, a pleasure to see you, Mr. Kovacs! Welcome to the forum.

As for Ralph...well, honestly, I'm sort of 50-50 about him making it out of 52 alive, but I don't think Vic is gonna live either. The 'killing cancers' thing was either tasteless filler dialouge, or they're gonna rub it in our faces by trying to say Vic just missed being cured by leaving to save Batwoman.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#16 2006-12-19 00:25:01

Eric
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From: Capital Region, NY
Registered: 2006-05-07
Posts: 1787
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

The whole thing with Ralph is...can his worth as a character be what it was before Identity Crisis? Part of the reason he's liked so well is because of the Thin Man routine he had going with Sue.

P.S. Welcome to Walt as well!

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#17 2006-12-19 09:39:52

Charlie
Member
Registered: 2006-12-19
Posts: 2

Re: Will He? Won't He?

I have faith in the writers of 52. They're not that predictable. you?

I disagree with you. Remember when Booster kicked the bucket and we were all sure that he wouldn't because the cover was too obvious. I think this is another case of that.

With the cover of 34 and the ticker that says "the final momments of the Question" I think its very obvious that he is going to kick he the bucket and I doubt DC is going to throw any clever twists at us.

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#18 2006-12-19 10:59:31

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

Hey, another new guy! Welcome, Charlie.

And Eric's got a point. Even if Ralph DID live through the end of 52, he wouldn't be the same. He gave up being Elongated Man, his wife's dead, and he'd just be another brooding detective character. DC needs more of those like a hole in the head. Believe me, I'm just as big of an Elongated Man fan as I am of The Question, but frankly Ralph's already dead to me. He died in Identity Crisis.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#19 2006-12-19 17:00:10

Bagoth
Member
Registered: 2006-10-22
Posts: 60

Re: Will He? Won't He?

It depends, the death of Booster Gold served the entire 52 plot as a whole. It introduced Evil Skeets and went more into depth into Supernova, with Vic I think it's a different story. I don't think it serves the plot, I mean what could Vic's death do to push the storyline further...besides the obvious Montoya becoming the question? And remember what the Intergang leader said when they saved Batgirl.

"The Questions...No...NO, you CAN'T be here, not YET...

The Questions have not been answered."


Question Authority - A virtual comic series coming soon.

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#20 2006-12-19 17:17:27

Walter_Kovacs
Member
Registered: 2006-12-18
Posts: 4

Re: Will He? Won't He?

plus, as it's been said here already, this is DC Universe. every other person you pass on the street can do magic and every hero and their mother has come back from the dead. even if he does die, the writers have until the end of 52 to fix it.

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#21 2006-12-20 01:28:34

QuestionPrime
Member
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: 2006-12-14
Posts: 44

Re: Will He? Won't He?

Hmmm... will he die?

Probably, but I also don't think that the writers are going to take the rather obvious and telegraphed route that it looks like they're on.

Not that I'm saying that he'll live, but I'm saying that it'll probably be more complicated than living/dying. No, I'm not really sure what I'm talking about.

But my bet is on the truth blindsiding us. And it might not even be resolved in the next few issues.


Or maybe I'm wrong and he's as dead as a doornail on a slab in a morgue.


-Q?Prime

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#22 2006-12-20 19:05:45

Byrd68
Moderator
From: Alaska
Registered: 2006-10-31
Posts: 740

Re: Will He? Won't He?

I hust re-read the first issue of O'Neil's run.  This isn't the first time Vic's taken a dirt nap.

My DCBS Order arrived today so I have a few issues of 52 to catch up on before I comment on what the intergang leader had to say.  But the bit about "The Questions" that Bagoth just mentioned...Maybe Montoya's alread a Question, shejust doesn't have a mask...yet?

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#23 2006-12-20 21:19:58

Buckaroohawk
Member
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: 2006-11-05
Posts: 180

Re: Will He? Won't He?

I voted my conscience...damn it.

I really hate to say it, but my gut tells me DC is going to kill him.  They're retooling (or have retooled) all of the Charlton characters they acquired that are currently active in the DCU.  I beleieve Vic's the last one left.  That puts a big target on his back.

This is going to sound so silly, but if/when Vic dies, it'll feel like a teacher of mine has passed.  It will be a sad day indeed.

:cry:


A Question.  Since before your sun burned hot in space and before your race was born, I have awaited...A Question.

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#24 2006-12-20 22:09:43

Eric
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From: Capital Region, NY
Registered: 2006-05-07
Posts: 1787
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

Nightshade's a member, OYL, of Shadowpact. She may be the last living action hero. Oh, and Sarge Steel.

We at least know that Vic goes to the hospital next week....

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#25 2006-12-21 17:47:49

Alba Aulbath
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From: In a ditch outside of Hub City
Registered: 2006-08-20
Posts: 53
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Re: Will He? Won't He?

I've no faith left in DC comics. I'm fairly certain that Vic is going to die, sadly.

Damn. So much potential, gone out the window.

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