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#1 2006-07-08 11:21:51

Carter
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From: a River City
Registered: 2008-02-24
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MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

oh, that. it's Wizard #161, it had sketches of Batman and Robin drafts he had done before settling on their designs. He also did sketches of characters he might possibly include, which had Superman ( i think) but definite sketches of The Question and Green Arrow. All I could find were the Batman and Robin ones.

http://www.legionsofgotham.org/COMICSal … ETCHES.jpg

Huh, I think I have that issue, but I don't recall Green Arrow and The Question. They must have run those same sketches in another issue, in another feature, and I'd like to get my hands on it as well.

The issue I have features the All-Star Superman (meh) artist doing Superman sketches, and Lee's ideas for costume revamps, shown in the images to which you link.

Miller's All-Star Batman is a grab bag of characters, so I hope Vic apperas. That means I'll actually buy an issue.

Miller has hinted that AS Bat is roughly (but only roughly) in continuity with the Dark Knight books - and The Question not only appeared there, he was gathered by Bruce for the information he had. So it would make since to have his poke his head in Gotham here as well.

As Eric and I have mentioned elsewhere on these forums (and I think others have concurred or preceded our statements here), Vic really belongs in Gotham. Well, I'd like to see a new Question series in a radically-different Hub City, but if the Bat-staff are going to keep going through these cycles of ditching all supporting Bat-characters on the grounds that they're too many for Gotham, then adding their own new heroes and villains from scratch, they ought to get a clue and take a popular third-now-second-tier character like Vic and make him a minor character throughout the Bat world.

Hell, give him some of his old Objectivism tempered with his Zen thinking, and let him be a wary ally of the Batman who doesn't follow of all Bat's orders/examples, but doesn't just blunder for it like Spoiler or the younger vigilantes. Catwoman has managed to do that.

Anyone read Rand's The Fountainhead? What do you think the Ditko Vic would do with the "criminal" Howard Roark. Vic of any incarnation could be shown giving mercy or a second chance to characters Batman would want to put away. Let Vic continue to be a hero disconnected from the main costumed community with input that saves their bacon from time to time, and with methods or motives they don't quite understand.

But make Vic Sage his dominant face as a supporting character - the newsman comes to Gotham. He can be like the Summer Gleason of the Bat-titles.

Sorry to ramble, it just bothers when I see The Question done so well by writers and artists, but underutilized in books where he'd fit perfectly.


"Art is about our fourth survival priority. And one can only assume that it therefore must have importance." - Alan Moore

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#2 2006-07-08 16:35:37

Eric
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

I made this a new topic because I felt it was worthy of further discussion. Do you guys think that Vic belongs in the same town as the Batman? How would you, if you were a DC writer, handle it? Would he get some of the Rogue's Gallery? Would he work with the Bat-family and Commissioner Gordon?

--Eric

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#3 2006-07-08 23:12:51

Carter
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

I've thought a great deal about this, which shames me to sound so nerdy (no, I have never written fan fiction, nor do I intend to). I am a minorly published (see my website) short story writer, so nights when I have insomnia I either trust myself to the white wine or I lay on my bed thinking about my own fiction. Sometimes thoughts range to what I would do if playing in the DCU.

Act One: the cold hard facts

Vic will never get his own title. Now, I hope I'm wrong. Everytime I hear rumors of Rucka writing one, I get this happy knot in my gut.

But if he doesn't, he belongs in Gotham City. Make him a wary ally, not a partner. He's like Ragman or Jason Blood - he teams up with Bats from time to time. Hell, I'd rather see Vic in his newsman role help Batman on more public fronts. Make him a dark horse city council nominee.

Make him like Harold - present in the background, doing good for Batman's foreground work. And sometimes, when Bats has to go after a big guy, he calls Vic to lose his face and be his backup.

Act Two: dream a little dream for me

I would, ultimately, prefer to keep Vic in his own city. Day(night?)dreaming one evening, I originally conceived of an idea that would have to feature a brand new vigilante (on the pipe dream that I one day write comics, knowing any current second-tier characters will probably be dead by then). The idea was that Hub City has in the past few years, rebuilt - with private investment, and a bootstrap devotion by the Hubbies who remain. The city has become a mecca for some leading industries (transportation, communication, etc.) with a thriving arts community. Myra Fermin is beloved, but retired for now. A mayor has stepped up that isn't corrupt and is strong. Hub City is at the top of its game. It has no real dark side.

But folks get restless after a minor supervillain flare-up. "Look at Metropolis, Central & Keystone - any good city will attract supercrime in this world." The mayor would issue a televised call to the superhero community, asking that Hub City be defended.

The Question, now Vic Sage pursuing a more private life, would handpick some driven young vigilante cluttering up Star City or Gotham or Metropolis or St. Roch, someone with Bruce Wayne's level of training and devotion, but with talent wasted in some burg already trolled by an accomplished hero. This vigilante would, abandoning his or her former secret identity (against Sage's recommendation, on that point) travel to take up with Professor Rodor, set in a new pad.

But that "new vigilante" twist would be abandoned if I could use The Question (or rather, a writer like Rucka could use him). The Question would return to a Hub City that is a golden city. The cops, led by an honorable man (perhaps Izzy?) are generally uncorrupted. The city council along with the mayor are honorable in their intentions. The citizens are active in their city's politics, the streets generally safe. The Question wants this. But the DCU is a dangerous place, and no city is an island. Infinite Crisis, especially the attack on Metropolis where Vic was present, and the events of 52, have taught Vic this.

The Question brokers a deal. He puts the word out that Hub City can be a sort of Casablanca. Any superpowered or costumed or just off-rader supercriminal can come to Hub City to lick their wounds, hide out, regroup - but they must not commit crime in Hub City. If they do, The Question has their secrets and will come down on all of them, hard. But if they keep quiet, use it to lay low, he will leave them be. A quiet truce.

But locally, he gets his own Rogues Gallery - reintroduced and revamped from the Ditko and O'Neil years, along with grim or fanciful reimaginings of DCU cast-offs (hell, just give Ditko's Punch and Judy to Hub City). These homegrown villains aren't beholden to The Question's Casablanca deal. The Mikado would return, somewhat unbalanced - he would feel that to make someone as mysterious as The Question a beacon of light to Hub City, he would have to draw Q? out with some public grisly crimes. Mikado would become dark to make Vic look all the better when he (Vic) overcomes him, as the Mikado wants to see Hub City's streets safe and decides to continue (as at his debut) dispensing the justice Vic can't while giving him an unambiguous threat to overcome, endearing Vic to Hub City.

This would make Hub City different than Gotham or Metropolis. A supervillain hideout that would make the streets of Hub safe, but raise many questions for Vic about right and wrong, about how Superman and Batman try (and fail) to keep their own cities safe - plus tons of potential for clashes with the DCU. The current Manhunter comes to town looking for Deadshot, and Vic has to decide whether to ferry Deadshot out or rat him out, losing the tacit truce with DCU's villains licking wounds in Hub City. The Justice League, for that matter, comes to town looking for a major threat. Vic Sage is offered the chance to lead a group of morally ambiguous "villains" like Catman on a mission to retrieve artwork stolen by Nazis and fenced knowingly to a corrupt local richman.

Let The Question continue his mysterious, philosophical pursuits against the DCU backdrop. Pull out the guns - he gets elected in a write-in coup to a position on the city council, and has to decide whether to accept it or not.

He and Rodor rebuild their relationship. Rodor has gotten some secrets along the way, perhaps become more adept at information retrieval, and has a dark secret or two. Perhaps he returned to Hub City sooner and views Vic with regret that he pulled out. Perhaps Rodor is elected to city council instead of Vic, and starts to get cold feet about helping a vigilante.

But at first, the people of Hub City would adore The Question. His faceless image wouldn't inspire fear. Local artists would describe him as an Everyman whose blank face shows us all human potential. The average Hubbie is now a model citizen - but will being treated like Superman in daylight make Vic lose his Batman-esque edge at night? Whose methods does he pursue?

Even a new vigilante or (let's hope not) Renee as a new Question would work for this - they'd just be stepping into a world once Vic's, and see that he accomplished more in Hub City than anyone expected.

I think The Question deserves his own city, but it needs an angle to differentiate. I think "city gone to Hell" has, in the years between O'Neil's stellar series and now, become too easy a cliche. Give Vic his ideal city, the dream already realized, and let him fight to keep this dream a reality.


"Art is about our fourth survival priority. And one can only assume that it therefore must have importance." - Alan Moore

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#4 2006-07-09 23:41:23

Eric
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From: Capital Region, NY
Registered: 2006-05-07
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Just a brief check-in tonight guys. Tomorrow, I'll comment on this awesome pitch from J. Bryan (By the by, what do you prefer we call you in shorthand? "JBS"?) and give my opinion on Superman, which I saw today.

In the meantime, I guess this might be the place to show you guys the Jim Lee sketch/quote from Wizard #165 about the Q? appearing in All-Star Batman.

--Eric

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#5 2006-07-09 23:49:42

Carter
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From: a River City
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

You can just call me "Bryan" for short hand, but JBS is sort of classy in its own way.

That Jim Lee sketch is a bit chilling - Vic almost looks like Michael Myers, but I guess seeing a man without a face would have a horror sort of look to it at night. Then again, the Tommy Lee Edwards Question had an air of nobility to him, being clad in normal colors and walking around in broad delight. It's good to have The Question approached by different artists with different angles - it's a step toward making him more an archetype.

I also like that Jim's sketch has longer hair - made me think of all those letter column debates in O'Neil's run.

Seeing Vic next to Hal and Oliver reminds me how much The Question needs to be promoted to a top tier character. Lee talks about how forward-thinking Hal Jordan's design was - I agree. It makes the costume work. Likewise, The Question's costume was a radical concept for the sixties. It was a return to the pulp era, with the off-kilter colors of the superhero world. I know I'm a major fan of The Question, so it's a bit suspect for me to say this, but Vic belongs at the top in his own way. But I'm a major fan of Cassandra Cain, the most recent Batgirl, but I wouldn't say that about her.

My proposal above is rough, but someday I should go into my "Justice League" Elseworlds proposal where the Justice League of the DCU are rebuilt from scratch, with Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, etc. never debuting and characters like Captain Marvel, The Question, and John Stewart being at the top instead, yet facing the same situations as the original JLA.


"Art is about our fourth survival priority. And one can only assume that it therefore must have importance." - Alan Moore

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#6 2006-11-27 12:26:31

Byrd68
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

I'm putting my two-cents worth in everywhere.

Recent discussions have indicated: a) that Vic is most likely going to die; b) that Montoya will become The Question.

If Montoya becomes Q doesn't that indicate a Q move to Gotham?

I'd rather see Q become a regular in Green Arrow than a occasional figure in Gotham.

I'd rather see a change in the mythology that shows The Question going back centuries, the mantle being passed on or picked up.  Tot could be the previous Question.

I'd rather see a whole revamp of Vic and the Question as a Vertigo title and never be seen in the DCU again than become another "Bat-bitch" (excuse the vernacular).

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#7 2006-11-27 12:37:03

Gabo
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City



I'd rather see a whole revamp of Vic and the Question as a Vertigo title and never be seen in the DCU again than become another "Bat-bitch" (excuse the vernacular).

Yeah, definitely. Vertigo should be the home for Vic.

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#8 2006-11-27 17:13:15

Pendragon
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Seeing how on time All-Star Batman & Robin is....

We'll have the issue with the Question by 2010, if we're lucky.


I'm not a cop.
I'm not a judge either.
I'm just a guy who's got to have answers if he's to sleep at night.

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#9 2006-11-28 11:36:36

Byrd68
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Seeing how on time All-Star Batman & Robin is....

We'll have the issue with the Question by 2010, if we're lucky.

I'm not too fond of All-Star Batman anyway.  Though I would like to see more of Miller's take on The Question.

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#10 2006-11-28 12:21:28

Pendragon
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Well, we did kind of get a taste on Miller's take on the Question in DKSB.

It wasn't bad.

The rest of the mini sucked though.


I'm not a cop.
I'm not a judge either.
I'm just a guy who's got to have answers if he's to sleep at night.

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#11 2006-11-28 12:58:28

Byrd68
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Well, we did kind of get a taste on Miller's take on the Question in DKSB.

It wasn't bad.

The rest of the mini sucked though.

Correct but I'm thinking more of Miller doing a vic/Question mini.  Not just as a Bit player.

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#12 2006-11-28 19:22:17

Pendragon
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Registered: 2006-11-16
Posts: 61

Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Well, we did kind of get a taste on Miller's take on the Question in DKSB.

It wasn't bad.

The rest of the mini sucked though.

Correct but I'm thinking more of Miller doing a vic/Question mini.  Not just as a Bit player.

So we can wait 3 years for an issue?


I'm not a cop.
I'm not a judge either.
I'm just a guy who's got to have answers if he's to sleep at night.

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#13 2006-11-28 19:40:35

j3h
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

His sin city stuff was mostly on time if I remember correctly.


I would love to see a Sin City style Frank Miller Question 48 page one-shot done in Black & White with spot color.


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/j3h/avatars/QuestionSanityBanner.jpg

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#14 2006-11-29 04:24:23

Pendragon
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

His sin city stuff was mostly on time if I remember correctly.


I would love to see a Sin City style Frank Miller Question 48 page one-shot done in Black & White with spot color.

Well, in all fairness, Sin City is his baby.  It's a passion to him.

You can see in both DKSB & ASBR that he really doesn't want to be writing them.

Though I would love to see Miller on a Question on-shot. I just don't think it should be a gritty as his current writting. He would need to go back to his Daredevil days.


I'm not a cop.
I'm not a judge either.
I'm just a guy who's got to have answers if he's to sleep at night.

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#15 2006-11-29 09:23:07

j3h
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

His sin city stuff was mostly on time if I remember correctly.


I would love to see a Sin City style Frank Miller Question 48 page one-shot done in Black & White with spot color.

Well, in all fairness, Sin City is his baby.  It's a passion to him.

You can see in both DKSB & ASBR that he really doesn't want to be writing them.

Though I would love to see Miller on a Question on-shot. I just don't think it should be a gritty as his current writting. He would need to go back to his Daredevil days.

Also to be fair, a recent DC interview stated that they have in their possession Frank's scripts through issue 8 off all* B&R...the lateness is 100% Jim Lee's fault, and he'll admit that himself.

I'm not saying that the writting of a* B&R is great or even enjoyable, but it's not Frank's fault it is late.


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/j3h/avatars/QuestionSanityBanner.jpg

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#16 2006-11-29 11:00:34

Pendragon
Member
Registered: 2006-11-16
Posts: 61

Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

His sin city stuff was mostly on time if I remember correctly.


I would love to see a Sin City style Frank Miller Question 48 page one-shot done in Black & White with spot color.

Well, in all fairness, Sin City is his baby.  It's a passion to him.

You can see in both DKSB & ASBR that he really doesn't want to be writing them.

Though I would love to see Miller on a Question on-shot. I just don't think it should be a gritty as his current writting. He would need to go back to his Daredevil days.

Also to be fair, a recent DC interview stated that they have in their possession Frank's scripts through issue 8 off all* B&R...the lateness is 100% Jim Lee's fault, and he'll admit that himself.

I'm not saying that the writting of a* B&R is great or even enjoyable, but it's not Frank's fault it is late.

I didn't say anything about his lateness there.

Just talking about him writting his own stuff, opossed to other's stuff.

I will admit that the lateness of ASBR is not due to him & I have seen Lee's message about it.

But that still doesn't explain his lateness on DKSB. That was all him.


I'm not a cop.
I'm not a judge either.
I'm just a guy who's got to have answers if he's to sleep at night.

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#17 2006-11-29 12:13:00

j3h
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City


But that still doesn't explain his lateness on DKSB. That was all him.

It was due to 9/11 happening in the middle of him working on it and how it changed his feelings in life and to the story he was telling.  He was in the middle of issue #2 when it happened and caused him to rethink alot of things.  (I'm not saying the final product was good though, or if 9/11 didn't change it that it would have been any better)

I'm pretty sure Frank is 100% committed to working on Batman when he is working on Batman, meaning he doesn't just phone in the job...but he does seem to get intrupreted often (anyone know when his Batman vs Al Quida gn is coming out?  he's been working on that on and off since the end of DKSA)

in the meantime, here's a good Frank Miller parody...

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5004/holyterrorparodyst9.jpg


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/j3h/avatars/QuestionSanityBanner.jpg

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#18 2006-11-29 14:38:43

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

Hi-larious! That parody works on several levels, all of them equally amusing! lol  lol


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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#19 2006-11-29 15:40:18

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
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Posts: 1621
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Re: MOVED: The Question in Gotham City

HAH! Oh, man, that's good. Whoever drew that does a pretty good Miller impersonation, art-wise.

http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm While we're on the subject, go here.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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