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#1 2008-08-10 17:26:38

Jayedynn
Member
Registered: 2007-07-31
Posts: 23

Vic's Origins

Just curious.  If DC ever brings back Vic (they'd better dammit, no offense to Renee), would you ever want Vic's family background revealed (either only to the readers or to him as well) or would you prefer if the how and why Vic ended up at the orphanage remain forever a mystery?

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#2 2008-08-10 20:28:15

nobody
Member
From: Cincinnati
Registered: 2007-07-20
Posts: 81

Re: Vic's Origins

we don't need it and it would muddy up the story line.Vic's orphanhood defines him as a character and bringing parents into it would be unnecessary.

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#3 2008-08-10 21:38:55

?
Conspiracy Theorist
From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Re: Vic's Origins

Enh. Personally, I think giving him a background of any kind defeats the purpose of the Question. The character himself is an absolute, he is not motivated by guilt or hate or vengeance but rather, by his desire to do good. By modifying this, by trying to "explain" why, one is removing what makes Vic Sage, Vic Sage.

This is not to say, that good stories can not be written with a modified character, but as far as Vic Sage is concerned "there is good and there is evil. And evil must be punished.*" 


[*Watchmen!]


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#4 2008-08-11 01:01:53

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
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Re: Vic's Origins

I, too, would rather it remained a mystery. When he died it added sort of a sad edge to the whole thing, that he died before he figured out the only mystery that eluded him. It'd be like if X-Files ended before Mulder found out what happened to his sister (and considering how stupidly THAT was handled, I'd almost rather they had ended it!).


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#5 2008-08-11 06:34:04

?
Conspiracy Theorist
From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Re: Vic's Origins

Flash1087 wrote:

(and considering how stupidly THAT was handled, I'd almost rather they had ended it!).

Oh god, why did you have to remind me?......*sob sob*wink


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#6 2008-08-11 11:27:07

Izzy O' Toole
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From: London, U.K
Registered: 2007-07-23
Posts: 313

Re: Vic's Origins

I'm with everyone else, Vic's heritage is a mystery, He draws on his time in the Orphanage, Like when he was buried in the mud and he remembers his time locked in the cupboard, And if it wasn't for his conflicting persona's of the angry kid and the Zen-like sage (Badum Chh) we wouldn't have such a great comic.


What would Rudolph say?

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#7 2008-08-20 00:57:01

NoFaceGuy
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Registered: 2006-09-20
Posts: 122

Re: Vic's Origins

I'd like it to remain a mystery.  It simply fits with the notion of a man with no face.

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#8 2008-08-20 09:00:52

ryumega
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-05-06
Posts: 58

Re: Vic's Origins

I miss "I'm right you're wrong" Vic...No offense to the eastern philosophies but yeesh does everyone have to dump ship and go that route? I think that was a 80's thing.

Why does a superhero need some sort of trauma in the past to push them forward to do something? If you look at Vic like Sherlock, who only did cases that interested him, then his motivation is to get to the bottom of whatever mystery he is investigating.

What would be a good back story? Grew up in a big town, mom stayed home/worked, dad was a saleman/statesman/lawyer/cop, only child curious about the world, went to school got his degree/diploma, found out that not having a face would benefit his obsession - bam - question.


"Professional liar and avid miss-speller"

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#9 2008-08-20 09:25:44

Squashy Josh
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From: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registered: 2008-07-27
Posts: 181
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Re: Vic's Origins

ryumega wrote:

What would be a good back story? Grew up in a big town, mom stayed home/worked, dad was a saleman/statesman/lawyer/cop, only child curious about the world, went to school got his degree/diploma, found out that not having a face would benefit his obsession - bam - question.

That is pretty much the implied origin of The Question in the Veitch - Edwards mini (my favourite Question to date).

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#10 2008-08-20 14:10:38

?
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From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Re: Vic's Origins

ryumega wrote:

I miss "I'm right you're wrong" Vic...No offense to the eastern philosophies but yeesh does everyone have to dump ship and go that route? I think that was a 80's thing.

Why does a superhero need some sort of trauma in the past to push them forward to do something? If you look at Vic like Sherlock, who only did cases that interested him, then his motivation is to get to the bottom of whatever mystery he is investigating.

What would be a good back story? Grew up in a big town, mom stayed home/worked, dad was a saleman/statesman/lawyer/cop, only child curious about the world, went to school got his degree/diploma, found out that not having a face would benefit his obsession - bam - question.

Yes. I agree.

Unfortunately some people seem to believe, that it's totally impossible for a character to actually want to do the right thing just because it's the right thing.

And while I enjoy the 80's Question series for what it is, I do not view it's Question as the same character from the Ditko stories. Because it is not. And this is something that O'Neil knew, and to his credit built upon by going as far as to change the name of the hero (to Charles Victor Szasz) and the city he lived in.


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#11 2008-08-21 00:59:14

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
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Posts: 1621
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Re: Vic's Origins

Squashy Josh wrote:

That is pretty much the implied origin of The Question in the Veitch - Edwards mini (my favourite Question to date).

Mine as well, and for similar reasons. A regular man with a totally average life and upbringing who just wants to help. His 'walking two worlds' powers don't hurt, but without those he's just like you and I.


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#12 2008-08-23 17:29:22

NoFaceGuy
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Registered: 2006-09-20
Posts: 122

Re: Vic's Origins

? wrote:

And while I enjoy the 80's Question series for what it is, I do not view it's Question as the same character from the Ditko stories.

I agree he's not the same but I see it the same way as any other character isn't exactly the same as their pre-crisis versions.

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#13 2008-08-23 22:13:36

?
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From: New York
Registered: 2006-06-26
Posts: 1874
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Re: Vic's Origins

NoFaceGuy wrote:

? wrote:

And while I enjoy the 80's Question series for what it is, I do not view it's Question as the same character from the Ditko stories.

I agree he's not the same but I see it the same way as any other character isn't exactly the same as their pre-crisis versions.

Very true.


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#14 2008-08-28 23:46:23

NoFaceGuy
Member
Registered: 2006-09-20
Posts: 122

Re: Vic's Origins

They'd never do it at this point,  but a "Question: Year One" would be interesting - but only if they tried to keep the old Vic as close to the Ditko version as possible, just fleshed out a bit more.

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#15 2008-08-30 11:42:56

Jayedynn
Member
Registered: 2007-07-31
Posts: 23

Re: Vic's Origins

NoFaceGuy wrote:

They'd never do it at this point,  but a "Question: Year One" would be interesting - but only if they tried to keep the old Vic as close to the Ditko version as possible, just fleshed out a bit more.

That would be cool.  I've also always wanted to know how Vic and Tot met.  I know Tot was his former professor, but since he went into journalism, Rodor couldn't have been his advisor.

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#16 2008-11-12 19:42:17

JoeBentley
Member
From: Norfolk, VA
Registered: 2008-11-12
Posts: 9

Re: Vic's Origins

ryumega wrote:

Why does a superhero need some sort of trauma in the past to push them forward to do something? If you look at Vic like Sherlock, who only did cases that interested him, then his motivation is to get to the bottom of whatever mystery he is investigating.

I couldn't agree more.  The "trauma as an origin story" is good and all and at times has been done very well, but its getting tacked on way too often, and not just in comic books but in other media as well.  It's become the hero equivalent to the villain having the bad childhood cliche.

And I agree it wouldn't work very well with Vic.  In fact I think a great Vic story would be him facing one of the countless DC (or other if we're talking crossovers, something Vic never got a good one of) heroes with the cliched "Oh something bad happened to me and now I fight evil" over the fact that they we're perfectly content with all the evil in the world until it effected them.

I can just imagine Vic staring down say Batman saying "You're a hypocrite rich boy.  You didn't give a shit about the world's problems until one of them pointed a gun at your mommy and daddy."

Last edited by JoeBentley (2008-11-12 20:18:05)

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#17 2008-11-12 20:03:57

Mr.A
A = Mr. A
From: Location Location
Registered: 2006-08-11
Posts: 579

Re: Vic's Origins

Right on target, JoeBentley, and welcome to the forums!

l


The world spins mad. The people are so intoxicated by luxury they forget everything that makes us more than house pets. Reason. Truth. Justice. Freedom. The human spirit is a shattered pane of glass – wrapped in soft velvet and soaked in sugary poison.

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#18 2008-11-12 20:35:12

JoeBentley
Member
From: Norfolk, VA
Registered: 2008-11-12
Posts: 9

Re: Vic's Origins

Mr.A wrote:

Right on target, JoeBentley, and welcome to the forums!

l

Thank you! (For both the agreement and the welcome!)

But yeah one of the reasons I've always liked Vic as a character is that he lacks that central tragedy to drive him that so many other heroes, especially vigilantes, have.  It makes him a much more complex and interesting character.

In raw data Vic is a nobody.  Sure his early life was crappy in most versions of the character but there was no family gunned down by mobsters or murdered parents to always bounce character development off of.

One of the few really good characterizations bits to come out the Helltown novel, which I enjoyed a lot but really didn't give us the best version of Vic, was one line from Batman about how while he had trained under the greatest teachers in the world backed up by a massive fortune Vic had to make do learning from paperback books and barroom brawls.

I'm a huge fan of both Batman and the Punisher (the Ditko Question meeting the Ennis Punisher would be a dream come true for me) probably the two most directly comparable mainstream comic characters, but give anyone 25 years of Marine training or a massive fortune and tie that in with a terrible tragedy and anyone will do some damage.

With Vic, everything, the skills and the motivation, only come from him.

Okay him and Richard Dragon but I'm trying to make a point *Grin*.  Although to be fair if I recall Vic was a better then average brawler before hooking up with Rich, Rich just refined the hell out of him.

He's one of the very few totally self made heroes.  I like that.

Last edited by JoeBentley (2008-11-12 20:41:38)

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#19 2008-11-13 13:27:34

Izzy O' Toole
Member
From: London, U.K
Registered: 2007-07-23
Posts: 313

Re: Vic's Origins

Vic Sage: Chair Thrower extrodinaire!

Welcome to the boards.


What would Rudolph say?

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#20 2008-11-14 00:02:07

Flash1087
The "Wizard"
From: Russia, with Love
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1621
Website

Re: Vic's Origins

JoeBentley wrote:

Thank you! (For both the agreement and the welcome!)

But yeah one of the reasons I've always liked Vic as a character is that he lacks that central tragedy to drive him that so many other heroes, especially vigilantes, have.  It makes him a much more complex and interesting character.

In raw data Vic is a nobody.  Sure his early life was crappy in most versions of the character but there was no family gunned down by mobsters or murdered parents to always bounce character development off of.

One of the few really good characterizations bits to come out the Helltown novel, which I enjoyed a lot but really didn't give us the best version of Vic, was one line from Batman about how while he had trained under the greatest teachers in the world backed up by a massive fortune Vic had to make do learning from paperback books and barroom brawls.

I'm a huge fan of both Batman and the Punisher (the Ditko Question meeting the Ennis Punisher would be a dream come true for me) probably the two most directly comparable mainstream comic characters, but give anyone 25 years of Marine training or a massive fortune and tie that in with a terrible tragedy and anyone will do some damage.

With Vic, everything, the skills and the motivation, only come from him.

Okay him and Richard Dragon but I'm trying to make a point *Grin*.  Although to be fair if I recall Vic was a better then average brawler before hooking up with Rich, Rich just refined the hell out of him.

He's one of the very few totally self made heroes.  I like that.

This. A thousand times, this. This sums up what drew me so much to The Question, that he's a hero because he felt it needed doing, and everything he knows he found out the hard way. Sure, Dragon helped, but look at the continuities where the two of them never met (Ditko's run, and presumably the Veitch/Edwards series) and Vic can hold his own just fine. He tought himself everything he needed to know about being a crimefighter, and the rest came to him through neccessity. I can't really think of any other hero that applies to...maybe Jack Knight, but he still had his father's equipment on his side.

Also, welcome aboard!


"RAND PROTECT US! THAT'S THE BEE'S KNEES!"-Mistah A

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#21 2008-11-14 22:19:42

Eric
Site Administrator
From: Capital Region, NY
Registered: 2006-05-07
Posts: 1787
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Re: Vic's Origins

Psh. Everybody knows that Vic's parents were Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva's sister.

Just kidding!

Welcome to the boards!

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#22 2008-11-15 09:21:08

TheAnswer
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2008-05-04
Posts: 56

Re: Vic's Origins

Haha! Aw man, now I can't get the thought of Richard going "Vic, I am your father" out of my head. It's just the kind of cheesy thing they'd do as well.

Or Tot... neutral


"The answer is meaningless without the question" - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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#23 2008-11-24 18:03:56

blazingwhitemask
Member
Registered: 2008-10-07
Posts: 58

Re: Vic's Origins

I see Vic's origins like so:

Baby happened to be at the doorstep of an orphanage. Period. The end.
However, I wouldn't mind a revisiting of how he grew into the Question. Perhaps picking up from his days in the orphanage, to him going to college and meeting Tot (and Lois Lane), to working at the Daily Planet, to returning to Hub City, and eventually becoming the Question. I wouldn't mind that.


The Question (Vic Sage) + Batman (Bruce Wayne) + Catwoman (Selina Kyle) + Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) = ONE KICK ASS TEAM!

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